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Milk based HNV baits ?

J

Joe Fletcher

No Longer a Member
Can any one offer help advice please on putting together a milk based HNV bait ? Having looked on the CC Moore website at their list of milk based ingredients and the inclusion rate recommended for each of the ingredients .
I was wondering if you still need to add a harderner /binder to enable the bait to be rolled ?
 
Joe - I've only ever used Milk Protein base mixes combined with a fishmeal base mix in varying proportions. Rolls out fine with standard oils/flavours. Haven't ever done a pure HNVMP mix though I'm afraid - certainly a much finer base. Doesn't the egg white and/or yolk do the binding/hardening bit?
 
Hi Joe,

John Baker's Milk Protein recipes do produce the goods for barbel.

It could be worth speaking to him if you want to go down that route.

It can be a very expensive mistake if you get it wrong.

You can also do a great deal of harm to your and everyone else's fishing if you don't know what you're doing!! I would definitely recommend a cautious approach.

Good luck,

Jeff
 
Hi Joe,
I would get in touch with CC Moore and ask them about their raw ingredients, and what each one "adds" to a base mix. Those guys are the experts and are without doubt the people I would be listening to. I also found John Bakers book on barbel baits and tactics very useful, when researching this topic. Most bait companies don't have an out and out milk protein base mix in their stables due to the high cost of the raw ingredients, meaning they are not the most viable baits to produce in the quantities most people would use(less is definitely more), and cost certainly something to consider if you do go down the experimentation route,(probably best not to think how much money we've all thrown in the river over the years!) But if it's a route you have your heart set on, good luck to you, my best advice is don't rush in to anything, do your homework regarding ingredients, keep accurate records of mixes and applications, give each mix a fair trial on stretches you know and are confident you should be catching a few from as nothing saps your enthusiasm like a run of blanks.

Hope this helps

Jamie.
 
Hi men ,

You could do worse than get a good winter bird food based base mix , lots out there , and cut it with cassin or the milk based powder of your choice . It's a start , you can introduce the milk content slowly , and the milk content won't be over the top .


Hatter
 
joe, try any reputable bait maker. i am sure they can knock a mix up for you that suits mate, long term its cheaper than diy and no mess for the wife to moan about;)
 
You could give the guy a ring at black country baits....he used to roll for cc before they went back in house as well as for a few other top brand bait companies. What he dosent know about bait aint worth knowing.

Honest advice with no brand favouritism. 01384 292040.
 
I use one or used too a while back.

I use three base powders from CCMoores, eggs and the odd flavour. It is well worth having a go with but do not over feed as the fish will fill up on it and not feed for a while. I usually take an one egg mix with me and that is all, a few chops and a small ball of paste usually does me for a session.

It does attract some good chub as well as barbel.

Talk to the guys at CCMoores, they will definitely sort you out, the base materials are expensive but if you are frugal with your approach it will go a long way.

Good luck.
 
Hi Joe,

Some good advice there from home rollers so far. I was never rich enough to experiment at want with high quality mixes making the most of the stuff that was available to me when I worked at an animal feed manufacturer in the nineties. Before then, my main home rolled stuff was semolina and soya flour with a funky flavour. These did catch some fish but were **** except in deep water; I'm talking carp here, not barbel.
There were though some useful ingredients there such as CeDe, lambs and calfs milk powder, stacks of Provimi 66, cod liver oil (I used Codlivine which added fibre too), salmon fry crumb, garlic powder and molasses to name a few.
From my experiences with carp fishing, obviously I am making the assumption that carp and barbel are too similar to warrant thinking out of the box, I would suggest buying a proven milk base mix, if one really does exist, and add one other dry ingredient to it to create the triggering response. Once you get some results, of course if you don't, then change the lone addition for something else and add either more or less until your getting more bites.
It's quite simple really. I'm almost wishing that I had the time to experiment on my local stretch. Luckily, I don't have the time!
 
Jeff Edisbury said:
Hi Joe,

John Baker's Milk Protein recipes do produce the goods for barbel.

It could be worth speaking to him if you want to go down that route.

It can be a very expensive mistake if you get it wrong.

You can also do a great deal of harm to your and everyone else's fishing if you don't know what you're doing!! I would definitely recommend a cautious approach.

Good luck,

Jeff
Click to expand...

This is a genuine question , how can a great deal of harm be done ?
 
I think Jeff is referring to over baiting with this type of bait and filling them up for long periods.
 
Mike,

As Julian suggests.

In my opinion, If the mix and attractors are correct, It doesn't need prebaiting.

I use single hook baits wrapped in paste and catch my fair share of fish.

Regards,

Jeff
 
Are these milk protein base mixes less effective in the summer months?
 
Hi John,

Probably not but to be honest, I've never used them in the summer!

I don't see any reason for them not to work, it's more that the expense is not justified?

I'ts a different mindset in the winter where you are in theory using one highly attractive bait ( or very small amounts) rather than baiting up and creating competition between the fish.

Probably not the best explanation but it's the best I can come up with at this time of the day!

Regards,

Jeff
 
Thanks Jeff i see what you are getting at..
 
Hi men ,

John , If you believe in the HNV theory then the baits are going to work all year , in my experiance its that other baits then become better as the water temps change , and fishmeals come into their own .


hatter
 
Hi Mark,

Just to mention however to those who might not be aware, that there is a fair difference in the HNV theory and the Milk Protein theory.

The HNV theory roughly translates to, all things being equal, providing the bait is palatable and digestible, the fish will come to recognise the benefits of eating it and the more you put in (over time), the more they will recognise it's benefits and eat it potentially over all other food sources.

The milk protein theory roughly means using very small quantities of VERY high protein bait. This would not respond well to heavy baiting, you basically ending up with fat fish that don't need to feed for long periods which is not what you want!

I can recommend Mike Willmot's Carp Life to anyone who want's an in depth synopsis of the different theories.

Cheers,

Jeff
 
Hi men,

Jeff , yes good point . I was just making the point that bait ingrediants can be and are seasonal , but people look towards milks in the winter . Mikes book is a cracker , I got it on release , and have re read it loads of times , love it . I also chatted many times to him about bait on the phone , always interesting . I used his B5 for a few seasons , rolled it myself , but used the banana/squid attractor as it seemed to go better with the fruit factor 5 , and everyone was on the plum version . In fact by almost dropping the salmon oil content , and increasing the banana slightly it caught really well through 2 winters on Horseshoe and other waters I fished .
I'm sure that milks are attractive due to their taste , and the grittiness of casein that I was using . In fact I cheated a lot , buying a ready prepared milk base mix from a bait company , and adding a good dollop of Rennet Casien , liquid protein sweetener from Hutchy , and the awesome Sickly Butter from SBS , caught lots on that combo but as you say in small amount / single hookbaits . I know that for barbel people look to say an essential oil for the attractor, with black pepper oil many peoples starting point ;)

Always an interesting subject , did my head in for a while :D.

Hatter
 
hi mark, i was and am the opposite, in winter i use a fishmeal base with a good helping of sma and just i bit of oil, 3 or 4 boilies a fish is more than enough freebies once the temps drop, carefully placed and patience is a good approach in my opinion:)
 
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