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Verulam angling new rule

R

Robert Linwood

Senior Member
No barbed hooks allowed on verulam angling club waters.
I've always found barbed hooks fine as they don't move around once the fish are hooked. Barbed or barbless hooks chaps how many of you use barbed for most of your fishing
 
Not used a barbed hook for over 10yrs..and I've never seen any evidence that barbless hooks "move around". I suppose if its a total novice using them, and they keep giving the fish slack line, then it could move a bit. But under normal circumstances then I don't believe it happens. I've always thought that the 'moving around' thing is just a rumour spread by anglers that are scared of going barbless.
I think eventually all barbed hooks will be banned across the UK, as gags and gaffs etc. have already been.
 
Robert Linwood said:
No barbed hooks allowed on verulam angling club waters.
I've always found barbed hooks fine as they don't move around once the fish are hooked. Barbed or barbless hooks chaps how many of you use barbed for most of your fishing
Click to expand...

I won't use barbless unless the fishery rules decree such. I don't see the point. Look at the commercial fisheries that enforce this and look at the fishes mouths.
 
I think the fishes mouths in pea soup commercial waters are in such a state because they see the inside of a keepnet all week long.Look at any worthwhile quarry (river fish,gravel pit,canal even) their mouths are nearly always fine,including famous specimens that stare back at us from angling weeklies.I personally use micro barbed mostly.Waiting hours on end for a prized specimen in gin clear weedy water I need some confidence that when I do connect I stand a chance of landing the fish.Trial and error brought me to this conclusion,Barbless hooks have cost me some good fish
 
I used barbless (Starpoint) hooks for 10 years and don't believe I lost any fish because of this, nor do I believe I noticed any damage to fish's mouths.

I also remember at that time there were some hooks with barbaric barbs, so lots advocated crushing them down anyway.

I then made some changes to my tackle (fish were getting bigger) and changed to braid mainline; changed to coated braid hooklength; and changed hook pattern to Drennan Continental Boile hooks which are micro-barbed.

I never felt any change in confidence with either.
 
Terry Simner said:
Not used a barbed hook for over 10yrs..and I've never seen any evidence that barbless hooks "move around". I suppose if its a total novice using them, and they keep giving the fish slack line, then it could move a bit. But under normal circumstances then I don't believe it happens. I've always thought that the 'moving around' thing is just a rumour spread by anglers that are scared of going barbless.
I think eventually all barbed hooks will be banned across the UK, as gags and gaffs etc. have already been.
Click to expand...

I am with you there Terry. My club has a barbless only rule, and I have not seen ANY fish with mangled mouths. Like you, I think this 'moving around' bit is probably an urban myth. In my opinion, it is more likely the intensity of fishing in some fisheries, the shear number of times fish are caught, and sometimes the general standard of angling that is the cause of the damage we see.

This is borne out by the fact that if you visit some of the the commercials where matches are held on a very regular basis, with some being won with hundreds of pounds of small to medium carp, the mouth damage is frequently quite severe. Equally, if you go to a 'runs' water, a lake stuffed full of ravenous carp, the type of fishery much loved by novice anglers, and where groups of buddies holding 'socials' most nights is the norm, then the same thing can be seen.

Though I have never fished any of the big rivers where 'carbelling' by groups of similarly 'relaxed' anglers abound, I would not be at all surprised if the same damage is much in evidence. Who knows the truth for sure? I know I don't, but then I doubt if any of the 'barbless hooks cause damage' guys actually have any cast iron proof either.

Cheers, Dave.
 
Back in the nineties I used barbless for some years and despite losing the odd fish didn't have a problem with them.
Being a keen pike angler I even went as far as replacing all the barbed hooks on my plugs, jigs and spinners with barbless. The result was a disaster, as a head shaking pike threw the hooks with ease and I reverted back to type.
I still replace hooks on some of my new plugs etc with micro barbs if I consider the originals to barbaric.
Because a couple of my clubs went on to ban barbless, I returned to barbed, but only use micro's,...which seem to be the most common pattern nowadays.

I think the argument over mouth damage is generally over-ridden by the ability of a tethered fish to shed the hook when reading opinions online.

A lot of rods on the market nowadays seem to be tippy and cannot always absorb the antics of a fish that is desperate to rid itself of the hook, especially when close in,...something to consider for newbies perhaps.
I would guess that those who use braided mainline may also lose a few more fish when using barbless?

Can't ever see barbless catching on with saltwater anglers, many whom now catch and return btw.
The emphasis being to prevent deep hooking,...using barbed circle hooks for bass for instance.
Maybe a similar case for Avon Salmon anglers as well.
 
Micro barbed for me.

The damage to mouths on barbless waters convinced me. I remember Ian Welch changing from barbless to barbed on cemex match lake because of the damage.

IMO.

The barbless hooks penetrate deeper and tend to slice during the fight. Whats to stop them? I would imagine the slicing action leads to hook pulls separating the mouth tissue particularly soft mouthed fish like carp, and the healing process tightens the tissue leading to the small keyhole mouth shape.
 
Graham Elliott said:
The barbless hooks penetrate deeper and tend to slice during the fight. Whats to stop them?
Click to expand...

That sounds like a good argument for the massive barbs seen on hooks many years ago, and on some imported plug trebles even nowadays.
If you believe that a barb adds to the 'width' of the hook SO much that it stops it "slicing" (sideways or whatever), then the bigger the barb the better.. and microbarb wouldn't be much 'better' than barbless. Looks like flawed logic and a flawed argument to me.
I can see the argument against barbless when using braid for hard mouthed fish (e.g. pike,perch) though. But with barbel (the species I mostly fish for) no.
But, just my opinion.
 
I've been crushing my barbs for around 15 years. All my mates at the time said i was mad and would loose fish all the time. Ok ive lost a few over the years but learnt to keep the line tight. I've seen quite a few fish with terrible hooking scares from Barbs and although fish don't feel pain like us, i feel better in myself knowing im not adding to the mouth deformations that may cause the fish feeding problems. Nowadays i only us barbs for sea fishing. Am happy most clubs now ban the use of Barbs in their waters.
 
I don't know exactly why, though they are adamant it's a fish welfare issue, but an increasing number of big carp fisheries are banning the use of barbless hooks. If you are going to see mouth damage, it's likely to be on match type commercials where barbed hooks are banned. What exactly causes such horrendous damage is open to debate. No doubt some will pounce on overly heavy gear, others will mention "skull dragging". I'm more concerned with the seeming inability of so many anglers to unhook fish quickly and efficiently, even with barbless hooks. The fact that it would seem that so many anglers don't appear to carry disgorgers or forceps is concerning. Unhooking shouldn't be a problem for any competent, and suitably equipped, angler, regardless of whether barbed or barbless hooks are used. Sadly, it seems that too large a number of anglers can't grasp the concept of a hook having to come out the way it went in. Lipless roach and rudd on barbless only venues are testament to the fact that simply pulling is an all too common unhooking technique.

I generally use microbarbs unless rules dictate otherwise. I have no particular problem using barbless. However, the vast majority of my angling is on the upper reaches of rivers in trout and grayling territory. I have tried barbless hooks on such water, but losses are ridiculously high. Whilst I make no claims to angling greatness, I'm not convinced that the best anglers would do significantly better. A fairly high percentage of microbarbed hooks come out in the net with trout and grayling. The only way of slightly decreasing the losses on barbless hooks is to use a pattern with a much longer point. I dread to think how long the point would need to be to match the performance of a barbed hook.
 
Terry.
In a carps mouth.

Which hook is going to move the most under pressure?

The barbless. Theres nothing to hold it in place or stop it penetrating much deeper into nerve tissue.

Heavy holding will cause it to rip and slice far more than a barbed. Thats why barbed were used to stop lost fish.

Most commercial waters with a barbless rule show the damage
 
i have seen lots of damage because of barbless hooks in fish, always used micro barbed or crushed barbed for over 20 odd years now, one of the clubs i belong to only allow barbless only, fine if thats the clubs rulig then i will always stick to the rules whether i consider them right or wrong
 
That's just Jeff I think Richard...I'm checking on the truth of it.
We'll see eh.
ATBA
Terry
 
F.I.O... as I write, BAA have no intention of banning braid, and the issue hasn't even been considered at a committee meeting.
Its just another tale.
ATBA
Terry
 
Robert,there is no rule change,the club email says, barbless, debarbed or micro barbed hooks only to be used on club waters.This has been the rule for a number of years.Some venues,like Marford state barbless on their venue rule because the owner (the gentleman farmer in Marfords case) is a conservationist and stated so in the long term lease.He is even against putting down poison to keep the Rat problem down.
 
First of all

Jeff you have a truly bizarre sense of humor which may well be best kept to those that appreciate it;)

Most importantly though I have seen so much damage to fishes mouths on barbless only fisheries that I would never use a barbless hook unless there was no other alternative.

I must add that when strong hooks and line are being used meaning the fight is not too protracted the damage is minimized.

I feel the damage is mainly caused on commercials where large carp are being caught on light tackle which leads to a long protracted fight where I am convinced that barbless hooks do move, not only in the original hookhold but also create new ones during the fight (hence the mouth damage).

Also OMO but one about which that I am unswayed.
 
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