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  #11  
Old 06-10-2017, 16:54
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Dave Taylor Dave Taylor is offline
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Mike,.. I was under the impression that mink traps were in place to control the species. When out on the Havon some months back I spoke to a young guy who had driven across the water meadows in a 4x4 to inspect the many mink rafts on the venue who informed me that they were just there to access the population and not for lethal purposes. He did add however, that dog otters often used them to drop a spraint on for scent marking!
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  #12  
Old 06-10-2017, 16:59
Mike Hodgkiss Mike Hodgkiss is offline
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Ha , very good Dave . I wonder why he would want to '' access the population ''? TBH I reckon shooting mink is a far better and more efficient option . Unlike the Otter they have few friends in the none angling community and don't think many would run to their defence, sneaky little toads that they are .
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  #13  
Old 06-10-2017, 17:24
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Graham Young Graham Young is offline
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[QUOTE=Mike Hodgkiss;209616]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Young View Post

To be fair Graham in Jason's [ and my response ] there were several legal predator management approaches that fishery owner / managers could adopt should they choose to .Howard , I don't think the survey will be particularly useful in that the predator problem is already clear and well identified at least by anglers and their supporters . My view is that something very positive can be done to manage predators such as mink and Cormorants , namely get on , obtain the requisite permits / licences and get out there and try to bring things back to some sort of balance by reducing predator numbers .

Are they not just to move the problem elsewhere? contraception is imo the only way otter numbers will ever be legally controlled.
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  #14  
Old 06-10-2017, 19:08
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Graham Young Graham Young is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Bean View Post
thing is Howard I can't see what can be done to change predation in away that can effect fish stocks.

you can shoot the birds if you want, you can trap mink if you want to, signal crayfish eradication will either be natural or science led and like said what will ever change regarding otters...nothing.

that's the way it is.

I would rather be informed by facts than hearsay at the end of the day. truth is how many anglers no the difference between an otter and a mink, how many know what a goosander or a cormorant looks like? and in all honesty how many anglers can be arsed to do the survey, as you know anglers are apathetic at best.

I remember many years ago reading this study as it relates directly to fish and angling and I found it very informative regarding otters as it was carried out on rivers I fish week in week out.
https://link.springer.com/article/10...364-015-0223-3.

I'm not knocking them and what they are doing I just cant see what the outcome will be.

If they don't they can log on to the survey site where the species mentioned are identified in a picture, there is also some interesting reading on endocrine disrupters etc on there its well worth a look and I reckon these chaps deserve as much support as anglers can give them.
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  #15  
Old 06-10-2017, 19:36
Stephen Crowhurst Stephen Crowhurst is offline
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I don't know about that Jason I'd say your average angler is more clued up on thier wildlife than most of joe public. Most anglers I meet are pretty observant bird watchers. If you can't see the difference between an otter and a mink it's time for an eye test haha.
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  #16  
Old 07-10-2017, 10:48
Howard Cooke Howard Cooke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Bean View Post
thing is Howard I can't see what can be done to change predation in away that can effect fish stocks.

you can shoot the birds if you want, you can trap mink if you want to, signal crayfish eradication will either be natural or science led and like said what will ever change regarding otters...nothing.

that's the way it is.

I would rather be informed by facts than hearsay at the end of the day. truth is how many anglers no the difference between an otter and a mink, how many know what a goosander or a cormorant looks like? and in all honesty how many anglers can be arsed to do the survey, as you know anglers are apathetic at best.

I remember many years ago reading this study as it relates directly to fish and angling and I found it very informative regarding otters as it was carried out on rivers I fish week in week out.
https://link.springer.com/article/10...364-015-0223-3.

I'm not knocking them and what they are doing I just cant see what the outcome will be.


Wasn't it generally believed that at speeds of over 30 mph people would die- from suffocation or something. Its a good job Mr Ford and others didn't listen to that background noise.

I'm sorry Jason but I just don't see the merit in demolishing an initiative which doesn't appear to have any downside. I am not sure I would class submissions as "hearsay" although I sort of get where you are coming from. We have to apply a bit fo faith and trust that the majority of people would submit something that is accurate without distortion that suited a particular agenda. That's why the more anglers that engage and do so over a long period of time, the more any such distortions are smoothed out. As I said previously, the value isn't necessarily in a snapshot view of predation-its' changes over time. The entire debate around fish stock levels/the state of our rivers is certainly starved of the oxygen of meaningful scientific analysis. But there is no either or here- data derived from this sort of initiative can happily run in parallel to scientific analysis and help inform the debate.

It takes no time at all to submit something-I did it last week after encountering a crayfish and whilst you and others may feel its pointless, I actually felt like I was helping a bit- contributing in some small way to a cause that all anglers should be united over. I have no idea ultimately what value will be derived from this work. But I am more than happy to support an angler who is prepared to do something practical and of course everyone has the choice to do the same or ignore it. Its just a bit depressing when initiatives such as this get the "what's the point" treatment.

I don't know how many anglers will be arsed to do the survey, and in terms of apathetic anglers, aren't you simply committing the same crime in your response to this?
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  #17  
Old 07-10-2017, 12:02
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Joe Fletcher Joe Fletcher is offline
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If we as anglers are concerned about the predation of our fish stocks on our rivers and lakes ? We talk about Otters , Cormorants and Goosander's and how they are having a impact on our fish stocks .

One predator that has not been talked about that was introduced illegally many years ago to our rivers and waterways is the Zander .

I assume Zander just like Otters , Cormorants and Goosander are having a impact on our fish stocks .

So the question I ask is . If we as anglers are concerned about the impact of Otters ,Goosanders and Cormorants are having on fish stocks . Then why are illegally stocked non native Zander that were introduced many years ago not on the list of predators that we as anglers should be concerned about ?
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  #18  
Old 07-10-2017, 14:54
Bryce Henderson Bryce Henderson is offline
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Predation to a great extent is a natural evolving situation but surely the answer is to have naturally reproducing species in sufficient numbers , this in my opinion is in our own hands.
Pollution from industrial and agricultural activities is the biggest destroyer of the river food chain together with water abstraction and the overuse of pesticides. It is in our hands to sort out these problems but very unlikely to happen as the vested interests are too powerful.
The EA in there own slothful way are trying to improve things such as installing fish passes and checking water quality but then resort to political panics by destroying bank side vegetation to supposedly help alleviate flooding.
Good luck to the guys with their survey.
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  #19  
Old 07-10-2017, 17:50
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Anthony Pearson Anthony Pearson is offline
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Joe, carp are not an indigenous species and as omnivores will eat fish eggs. You tell the bivvy brigade that they've all got to go!
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  #20  
Old 07-10-2017, 17:59
Stephen Crowhurst Stephen Crowhurst is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce Henderson View Post
Predation to a great extent is a natural evolving situation but surely the answer is to have naturally reproducing species in sufficient numbers , this in my opinion is in our own hands.
Pollution from industrial and agricultural activities is the biggest destroyer of the river food chain together with water abstraction and the overuse of pesticides. It is in our hands to sort out these problems but very unlikely to happen as the vested interests are too powerful.
The EA in there own slothful way are trying to improve things such as installing fish passes and checking water quality but then resort to political panics by destroying bank side vegetation to supposedly help alleviate flooding.
Good luck to the guys with their survey.
Agreed. The biggest issue therein is unless you know what you've got to start with you cannot know what the impact is.
X-14=... pretty uniformative.
There is in my opinion merit to this work proposed but it needs expansion to be fully effective.
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