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  #1  
Old 04-10-2017, 23:02
Jerry Gleeson's Avatar
Jerry Gleeson Jerry Gleeson is offline
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Default The fishery predation survey

With many of the nations waterways now suffering from predation from otters, minks, crayfish, gooseanders etc, Paul Floyd and Shaun Nurse in there own time and using there own money have started the fishery predation survey project.
The goal is to build up a database of sightings and incidents to monitor the effects of predation on our fish stocks and provide data to give weight to any lobbying of government agencies to get improvements in the quality of our fisheries so that they can support both angling and our native wildlife in a natural self sustaining way.

It takes less than 2 minutes to fill in the form to report a sighting or incident so please do so, any information you input is confidential and will not be including in published reports.

www.predation.co.uk

www.facebook.com/predationsurveyproject



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Old 05-10-2017, 12:34
Jason Bean Jason Bean is offline
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While the guys feel they have good intentions I fail to see what the survey can possibly achieve as its just anecdotal and not scientific data.

Fisheries predation has been part of "modern" fishing now for many years and thankfully lobbying by the angling trust a few years ago eased the restrictions on shooting cormorant and goosander. Mink you can kill humanely, signal crayfish there may never be an answer for and otters we all know about them.

Predation is just part of fishing and managing a fishery.
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Old 05-10-2017, 13:00
Mike Hodgkiss Mike Hodgkiss is offline
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I am sure that the chaps have the best of intentions but as Jason has said what will having this database achieve ? We all know about the various creatures that eat fish and are equally aware that in certain circumstances if the predators are in large numbers they can have a very significant negative effect on fish .e,g. lots of otters / mink/ cormorants in a short stretch of small river or the same predators clearing a pond or lake out . Putting aside the fact that culls of otters will never be sanctioned, if people have a concern about too many mink on their local river or flocks of cormorants taking large numbers of fish then they have the option of thinning the predators out by trapping / shooting . With a little effort this can be done legally if the requisite licences / permits are obtained . This would be a direct and legal approach to reducing the problem
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Old 06-10-2017, 10:49
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Dave Taylor Dave Taylor is offline
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Any reliable evidence that will shine a light on predator impact on fisheries is fine by me.
I agree that data collated by those with a vested interest will be discounted by many, and I also acknowledge that predation is but one part of the problems affecting some of our rivers.
I can’t foresee a reversal in the public perception of the otter ‘success ‘ story as many turn a blind eye to it’s consequences. I quite like otters actually, but their increased presence on my local venues IS most definitely leaving it’s mark,... as can be seen with the diminishing adult barbel ,chub and water fowl populations.
I spend most days around the riverbank and watch otters and cormorants do what they do,... day in day out, ... there seems to be but a few larger barbel that haven’t escaped Tarka’s attention, many sporting large claw and teeth wounds that cannot be attributed to angling damage which has “bookended “ the predation cycle from egg to adult.

I really do try to be upbeat and positive about the rivers because there still remains so much to enjoy, but for many of the inhabitants the future seems precarious to say the least.
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Old 06-10-2017, 13:14
Jason Bean Jason Bean is offline
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I'm not knocking them Dave and like you say anything that shines a light is good, but I still feel it will achieve nothing....and I class myself as an optimist

but I would like to be proved wrong.
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Old 06-10-2017, 14:13
Howard Cooke Howard Cooke is online now
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I don't sign up to the "it won't do any good" mentality and think it's a great shame when we see that sort of response. It can all get a self-fulfilling of course because of the impact these sorts of comments can have. Importantly, the survey isn't solely otter focused and from what I know of Paul, he is balanced about the issues and feels like many that some attempt at gathering data that might at least inform the debate should be seen as a good thing. It's also not about a snapshot view and much of the value will be in seeing changes over time. This does then require pretty consistent data and clearly the more anglers that get involved the more likely it is that distortions are smoothed out.

We could all argue about the timing of initiatives such as this until our life force evaporates completely. The point is it's being done now and by someone who has devoted his personal time to develop and launch this site because he cares. I don't see why we can't wish him the best of luck and even supply data when an event occurs. Let's not kill it at birth.
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Old 06-10-2017, 15:00
Jason Bean Jason Bean is offline
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thing is Howard I can't see what can be done to change predation in away that can effect fish stocks.

you can shoot the birds if you want, you can trap mink if you want to, signal crayfish eradication will either be natural or science led and like said what will ever change regarding otters...nothing.

that's the way it is.

I would rather be informed by facts than hearsay at the end of the day. truth is how many anglers no the difference between an otter and a mink, how many know what a goosander or a cormorant looks like? and in all honesty how many anglers can be arsed to do the survey, as you know anglers are apathetic at best.

I remember many years ago reading this study as it relates directly to fish and angling and I found it very informative regarding otters as it was carried out on rivers I fish week in week out.
https://link.springer.com/article/10...364-015-0223-3.

I'm not knocking them and what they are doing I just cant see what the outcome will be.
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  #8  
Old 06-10-2017, 15:42
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Graham Young Graham Young is offline
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[QUOTE=Jason Bean;209558]While the guys feel they have good intentions I fail to see what the survey can possibly achieve as its just anecdotal and not scientific data.

Fisheries predation has been part of "modern" fishing now for many years and thankfully lobbying by the angling trust a few years ago eased the restrictions on shooting cormorant and goosander. Mink you can kill humanely, signal crayfish there may never be an answer for and otters we all know about them.

Predation is just part of fishing and managing a fishery.[/QUOTE]





How can a fishery be legally managed if it is overrun with predators whose numbers cannot be controlled?
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  #9  
Old 06-10-2017, 16:03
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Dave Taylor Dave Taylor is offline
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Jason,.. I totally understand your viewpoint,.. I too get despondent and often cynically wonder if much of what we anglers have witnessed over the past 20 odd years is irreversible.
That said, I will support anyone who is willing to tell it like it is, and present factual un-hyped evidence of any predation linked damage to our fish stocks.
Anglers,.. although often biased,... are best placed to report and should be encouraged. Feedback should be sifted and accurate.
What will it achieve? Well it means I will feel better for not sitting on my hands by highlighting what many of the public either refuse to acknowledge or don’t witness. Whether they give a damn or not,.. answers on a postcard.
http://www.barbel.co.uk/site/vbullet...pictureid=6015
A nice Dorset Stour barbel with a chunk missing.
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  #10  
Old 06-10-2017, 16:42
Mike Hodgkiss Mike Hodgkiss is offline
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[QUOTE=Graham Young;209612]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Bean View Post
While the guys feel they have good intentions I fail to see what the survey can possibly achieve as its just anecdotal and not scientific data.

Fisheries predation has been part of "modern" fishing now for many years and thankfully lobbying by the angling trust a few years ago eased the restrictions on shooting cormorant and goosander. Mink you can kill humanely, signal crayfish there may never be an answer for and otters we all know about them.

[COLOR="Yellow"]Predation is just part of fishing and managing a fishery





How can a fishery be legally managed if it is overrun with predators whose numbers cannot be controlled?
To be fair Graham in Jason's [ and my response ] there were several legal predator management approaches that fishery owner / managers could adopt should they choose to .Howard , I don't think the survey will be particularly useful in that the predator problem is already clear and well identified at least by anglers and their supporters . My view is that something very positive can be done to manage predators such as mink and Cormorants , namely get on , obtain the requisite permits / licences and get out there and try to bring things back to some sort of balance by reducing predator numbers .
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