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Ever thought of pre-baiting!

Keith Speer

Senior Member
Several years ago Mike Wilson (Yes him, the famous Leg-end from Savay) and I decided we would try a spot of pre-baiting on Old Father Thames.
At the time we were fishing a nice quiet spot just downstream of a weir, the swims were nice and comfy, protected by a decent stand of trees, nice distance apart, giving plenty of room to fish, but close enough to be social.
Parking was nice and close, the river had good flow (when the Thames has flow) and this venue was fishable most of the time and night fishing was allowed, it was a spot we liked very much indeed.

The only problem was with the Barbel, we would often catch Barbel, but we would often not catch Barbel, they did not seem to be there all of the time, in fact we were fairly sure that the fish spent a lot of time in the weir, this was fishable but awkward and if the fish were where we thought they were, not only were they awkward to reach but they were also a very long chuck away, now neither of us was put off by a long chuck, but we were put off by the remains of the old weir which was still in place and about a third of the way out.
This weir not only caused the loss of much end tackle, but also the loss of fish and re-spooling for every visit became not only tiresome but expensive.
In an ideal world we wanted to catch the fish in the section downstream of the weir, where it was not too difficult a chuck and we could sit in splendour in nice comfy swims with no large obstructions between us and the fish.

So over a cup of tea or three (which obviously I made as Mike would always let Jeeves take the night off when he was fishing), we hatched a plan, a plan so devilishly cunning that it would, until this day, remain up there in Mr Fox’s list of cunning stunts!

This plan involved………….Pre-Baiting!!!

Some of you will have taken the time to read Mike’s article on “The baiting pyramidâ€, it is in the “articles†section on this site and those that have not should do so, because not only does it inspire but it also gives an insight into feeding patterns of fish and explains the value of observation.

Our aim was to draw Barbel into an area that we could fish easily, quite simple really, but it would involve the purchase of a fair quantity of bait, little application and a bit of teamwork.

Our first problem was choice of bait, it needed to be cheap as Mike did not want to part with the Rolls and I thought it best to keep feeding the family, I did not want them to get all “uppity†at a crucial time, so we looked at Maize and we looked at Maple Peas, both would be easy to prepare in quantity and both were cheap, but of the two Maize would be a bit obvious to other close season wanderers, on the other hand Maple Peas would blend in and remain un-noticed, even if dropped quite close in so we opted for Maple Peas.

We knew we would need to start well before the start of the season, we were trying to “condition†the fish to feed in or at the very least visit our chosen area, this would not be an over night task, but we did need the water to be warm enough for the fish to be cruising about, so the start date was set for mid April.

Our plan was simple, we needed to place a Maple Pea in every square yard of the bottom from one side of the river to the other, this would be done by catapult, mainly firing the Maples high into the air to get maximum spread and we started with an area of approximately 200 yds of bank space.
So every two days we would bait this area, I would do a Tuesday, Mike would do Thursday and I would do Saturday, Mike would follow on Monday and would do Wednesday and so on.
I suspect seeing a chap in a three piece suit with a bucket, catapulting something all over the place made the odd boat owner scratch his head, but we kept it up, come rain or shine, every other evening.
We wanted the fish to see bait all the time, we wanted them confident and un-afraid, to accept that if they swam a few feet they would see a Maple, in fact Maples would be as common as pebble and twigs on the bottom!

Once we felt we had achieved this we started to narrow and reduce the area we baited, slowly bit by bit we reduced the area and while reducing the area we started to introduce small amounts of Hemp until we were only baiting the centre deepest channel over a spread of about 5-6 swims and for the last week before the start of the season we started to introduce Hemp in larger quantities but made sure we were very much more accurate with our baiting, ensuring it only went in where we planned to fish.

With the start of the season, we would arrive, put in 4-6 pints of Hemp with a bait dropper, into the centre of the boat channel, ONLY, in an area the size of a small dinner table and just before we cast out we would put in about two pints of Maggots, again by dropper.
To be honest casting a standard bait dropper 25-30yds is quite hard work, if we missed the spot we would not let the dropper open, but wind in and re-cast, accuracy would be everything.
The rigs were simple running rigs, with Maggot feeders and Maggots as hookbait.

What usually happened was that Bleak would kick off proceedings, followed by Dace and then Bream, we would re-cast every 2-3 minuets or as soon as the feeder was empty, while the small fish were about plastic baits were the hookbait but once the bigger fish moved in real ones did the trick.

Did it work?

Well it did to a point, we did not catch any big Barbel, in fact we only had two doubles, to be honest we had far more double figure Bream, although we did not catch many Bream at all and to cap it all at the start of August the heavens opened and the river went into huge flood which kind of stopped our singing in church, so we only had about 6 weeks worth of fishing!
When we did fish we kept the bait going in, during this period Mike and I fished about twice a week, with the odd extra evening if we could get away with it, BUT in those 6 weeks we had 167 Barbel between us, mostly between 6-9lb and it was great fun!!

So if you think it is worth it…………………………………………?

Tight lines chaps.
 
Keith either you or mike offered to tell me what you put in but i preferred not to take another mans rewards of hard work, you have just very kindly told us what went in which was what i thought may have been the case either that or hemp, either way you two certainly got the desired results i am pleased to say,
right off the subject but on subjects has mike finished that book yet
 
Erm yes yes I have, fed several swims (quite like a certain thread on here very recently) and come up trumps thanks
 
Keith an interesting piece and obvoiusly you were rewarded for your efforts.

How long were your twice weekly sessions? Days/Nights/Evenings? Just trying to get an idea of the return rate in terms of hours per fish.
 
I am always worried some one will steal all that hard work and preparation by being in your swim when you arrive to actually fish it! The prebait scenario does seem to be very much worth it other than my fear.

Nice piece

Brian
 
pre baiting

em ,once spent a month prebaiting a swim for tench,when the old closed season existed on clifton marina,got there on the gloriuos 15th all ready with the bait sweetcorn,which had gone in every night for the month,first cast slider goes out at midnight ,five minutes later it bobs then slides away into the first fish of many ,what a result! NO ALL WERE BL OODY PERCH NO BIGGER THAN 6OZ NEVER PRE BAITED SINCE!:(
 
So if you think it is worth it…………………………………………?

I saw a couple of large barbel on video recently who had obviously enjoyed munching lots of maples peas and hemp in their youth ;)

How much (pre) bait did you go through out of interest Keith? I'm considering a similar route to bagging up on the carp in the canal which is at the end of the road!

Also, I wonder why you didn't fish maple as a hook bait or am I missing something?

Tight lines!

Stephen
 
Stephen

We did try Maples and funnily enough did have one of the doubles on them, but it was easier to get the fish really going on Maggots..

The point about our pre-baiting was not to get the fish on a particular bait but to get them to visit certain areas in search of food, this worked very well and we knew that if they visited our chosen area at a time of our choosing we would be able to get them to feed on a bait that was convenient for us.

Our problem was that fish occasionally visited our chosen area, but not every day and not always at a time when we were there to fish for them.
The pre-baiting made our spots worth regular visits and at a time when we could fish for them and as such we did catch a lot of fish.

Our sessions were evenings only, from about 6-30pm to midnight, we never did a full night or a full day and most of the action came between 9-11pm, but when we started to catch it was one after the other, in fact most of the time I would only use one rod and I held that rather than let it rest in the rod rests.
On one occasion Mike was casting out, turned to speak to me as the feeder dropped and settled and nearly had his arm put out of joint, when we got them feeding they went for it big time.
Over the six weeks that we fished, we did not blank once, I think I got the prize for the least fish in a session with 4 and both Mike and I had 11 fish in a session more than once.
One evening when all the swims around us were taken, Mike and I had 16 fish (8 each) and they were the only fish taken from the venue that evening, the difference was that we knew where to fish and accuracy of cast was everything, if you were not slap bang in the centre of the boat channel then you did not catch a Barbel, such was the conditioning and pre-occupation of the fish.
 
Nothing against you Keith, but I detest articles espousing the value of prebaiting because in my experience very few people understand where they can and cannot do it and how much bait they should and should not pile in.
Not only can the notion of prebaiting in the misguided head destroy others fishing come the start of the season but risk their fishing for the rest of it.
 
Actually Damian I agree with you. In the wrong hands on the wrong venue you can screw it up for many. Keith did say is was the Thames, which, I suggest can cope easily with heavy baiting [or at least what we could carry]. What do you consider heavy baiting on a stretch of lightly fished wide river? My original article [written way back in 1976] and used on a 68 acre lake with virtually no one fishing it [for carp] worked for me but I agree is very selfish on a water heavily carp fished. I certainly would not do it on some of the rivers I fish today except possibly baiting with maggots which would be eaten by just about everything that swims.
Keith was just explaining how we went about catching a few barbel from a stretch that didn't throw up that many a season.

Take care

Mike
 
The end of the season has literally just passed, Mike, and my only worry is that bouyed by those numbers there are some out there giving little regard for not only whether or not they might be allowed to prebait, but for those they might never have waited to see, and that's without some trying to create areas of dry land.
Some people will go to great lengths to catch barbel and the temptation not to consider the above is too great for those I have met on the banks.


Damian
 
Damian - your, Mike's and Keith's words all provide a good deal of balance on the subject of pre-baiting. I would hope that all who read this act responsibly and now have a better understanding of both the advantages and disadvantages of pre-baiting.

Great thread! :)
 
Bloody hell Damian what do I do now with my 100kgs of pellets?:confused:
 
Damien

I was not necessarily advocating the act of pre-baiting, rather I was hoping for the oppertunity of pointing out the futility of doing it!



Was it successful? Well it was to a degree, But..............................

Was it extremely hard work? Well work it out yourselves, for two months I always had a gallon or so of bait being prepared, ok the bait itself was cheap, but there was also my time to be accounted for and the cost of fuel to boil the bait and also the not insignificant cost of fuel for the car, even more of my time actually getting to the river (I live in St Albans) AND the fact that every 4 days I had to put my life on hold!
AND as if that were not enough, you can double that when you include Mike’s effort.

It was certainly an interesting experiment, we wanted to influence the fish on our terms and although we certainly did that, we also learned that we were more successful as anglers if we tried to influence the fish on THIER terms!

When I go fishing these days, I tend to choose a day on a venue, when I can successfully do exactly what the principal lesson of Mike’s baiting pyramid tells us can be done, but my intent is to influence the fish on their terms in a place that they choose.
This involves knowing the venue, knowing a little bit about the quarry, picking the right time, picking a bait that will prove attractive and using watercraft to determine the right place.

And more often than not I get it completely wrong and even sometimes when I get it right, I get it wrong, three weeks ago I hooked and landed a Barbel of 17lb 9oz, a simply stunning fish in the peak of its condition……………… but it did not count because I foul hooked it in the pec, it doesn’t happen often, but when it does it is a total gutter and was the low point of a poor season.
I believe that fish was in my swim casting from side to side snaffling my bait, had I not foul hooked it, possibly three or four trots later I might have had it fairly – who knows.
The point is that I got a big fish moving on to my bait, I got the location right, I got the bait right, I got the timing right and my presentation must have been half way there, exactly what you want when fishing for big Barbel, yet ultimately it went down as a failure!
The important point is that my method of little yet often still works on a very heavily fished water that is open to any angler that wishes to fish there, as it is a free fishery.

I shall certainly fish with Mike again, we have quite a few sessions together every season, in fact we shall soon be fishing for big Crucians if the blasted weather ever gets a fair bit warmer, we certainly won’t pre-bait for them, in fact I doubt we shall EVER go to the expense and hard work that we put in pre-baiting the Thames again, on any water.

Yes in certain circumstances, pre-baiting will work, but I have to say (and it is an Americanism, and I usually can’t stand them) that in this day and age with the amount of anglers that now frequent our fisheries, you have to think a lot further out of the box, than was previously the case, if you wish to catch bigger Barbel.

Happy decorating chaps!:(
 
Actually Keith I'm about to embark on a similar campaign, but not for barbel.

I have permission to fish a very private 20 acre lake, but only have access to a small part of the dam wall.

No-one else fishes the water apart from me and my friend, with the exception of a few winter pike anglers.

There are very few features on the lake but the part we can fish is next to a large weed bed.

We know there are carp and tench present as last season we tench over 6lb and carp to mid double. Our success was very patchy though, and we're sure there are bigger fish present.

So over the next few weeks we shall be scattering maples and maize in the area, we were going to concentrate the bait on two spots but I like your idea of spreading it.

As far as pre-baiting for barbel I can't see any problem with it as long as it's in proportion to the river. Let's face it on some stretches on the Severn they get kilo after kilo put in and if anything it just improves the stretch.
 
If you have a lake to yourselves and you won't be inconveniencing any other anglers, then go for it, but I would read Mike's article first and knowing Mike he will answer fully any pm you send him, might save you a lot of work and give you a heads up on the do's and don'ts.

Mike will give you an honest opinion and I’ll bet he would advise using Maize only.
 
Pyramid feeding should be banned :)

Seriously interesting story and more than once I have thought that such approach would benefit the wide open expanses on my local Lower Severn, Joe and I even sort of hatched a plan to pile in loads of bait over a week or so, in a really remote location, where you could normally fish for a week without so much as a touch. But work and pretty reasonable fishing without pre baiting took over, so it never got off the ground.

Years ago I asked the question on here as to what would be a cheapish feed for such a campaign, and came up with much the same as Keith used, however what stopped me in my tracks was Lol Shakespeare's comment that we would be certain to draw in huge amounts of Bream ...right :eek:

However I do know that mass pre baiting on the Lower can pay off for Barbel, a certain local tackle dealer did exactly that a few seasons back, (spending a few hundred quid on feed) and did have a good number of Barbel out....but I think I am right in saying nothing too big. But all very secret squirrel carpy type of thing.

But I guess I need a sponsor such as a feed merchant, the River down this way is a beast. Or I could just keep on using 2 inch cubes of garlic spam.:confused:
 
Damien

I was not necessarily advocating the act of pre-baiting, rather I was hoping for the oppertunity of pointing out the futility of doing it!



Was it successful? Well it was to a degree, But..............................

Was it extremely hard work? Well work it out yourselves, for two months I always had a gallon or so of bait being prepared, ok the bait itself was cheap, but there was also my time to be accounted for and the cost of fuel to boil the bait and also the not insignificant cost of fuel for the car, even more of my time actually getting to the river (I live in St Albans) AND the fact that every 4 days I had to put my life on hold!
AND as if that were not enough, you can double that when you include Mike’s effort.

It was certainly an interesting experiment, we wanted to influence the fish on our terms and although we certainly did that, we also learned that we were more successful as anglers if we tried to influence the fish on THIER terms!

Happy decorating chaps!:(

I think whichever way you look at it, Keith, 167 barbel between two people in 6 weeks is encouragement enough, and perhaps, once you take away what might have been the difficulty of actually getting the bait to the river from where you lived, it is even more so.

If you are not sure of any or all of these, I would posit that you should not be prebaiting;
whether you are allowed to be on the banks during the close season,
how many anglers might frequent that venue during the season,
how many fish you might be targetting.
I would do so on the basis that you have the very great capacity of ruining not only the fishing for yourself and others that frequent the venue, in the short term, but in the long term too. Fisheries have been lost to out of season trespassers!

And finally, and perhaps from my point of view more importantly, why on earth can we not just be bloody happy that the season has now finished and the fish now deserve a rest from our interests?

Regards

Damian
 
Several years ago Mike Wilson (Yes him, the famous Leg-end from Savay) and I decided we would try a spot of pre-baiting on Old Father Thames.
At the time we were fishing a nice quiet spot just downstream of a weir, the swims were nice and comfy, protected by a decent stand of trees, nice distance apart, giving plenty of room to fish, but close enough to be social.
Parking was nice and close, the river had good flow (when the Thames has flow) and this venue was fishable most of the time and night fishing was allowed, it was a spot we liked very much indeed.

The only problem was with the Barbel, we would often catch Barbel, but we would often not catch Barbel, they did not seem to be there all of the time, in fact we were fairly sure that the fish spent a lot of time in the weir, this was fishable but awkward and if the fish were where we thought they were, not only were they awkward to reach but they were also a very long chuck away, now neither of us was put off by a long chuck, but we were put off by the remains of the old weir which was still in place and about a third of the way out.
This weir not only caused the loss of much end tackle, but also the loss of fish and re-spooling for every visit became not only tiresome but expensive.
In an ideal world we wanted to catch the fish in the section downstream of the weir, where it was not too difficult a chuck and we could sit in splendour in nice comfy swims with no large obstructions between us and the fish.

So over a cup of tea or three (which obviously I made as Mike would always let Jeeves take the night off when he was fishing), we hatched a plan, a plan so devilishly cunning that it would, until this day, remain up there in Mr Fox’s list of cunning stunts!

This plan involved………….Pre-Baiting!!!

Some of you will have taken the time to read Mike’s article on “The baiting pyramidâ€, it is in the “articles†section on this site and those that have not should do so, because not only does it inspire but it also gives an insight into feeding patterns of fish and explains the value of observation.

Our aim was to draw Barbel into an area that we could fish easily, quite simple really, but it would involve the purchase of a fair quantity of bait, little application and a bit of teamwork.

Our first problem was choice of bait, it needed to be cheap as Mike did not want to part with the Rolls and I thought it best to keep feeding the family, I did not want them to get all “uppity†at a crucial time, so we looked at Maize and we looked at Maple Peas, both would be easy to prepare in quantity and both were cheap, but of the two Maize would be a bit obvious to other close season wanderers, on the other hand Maple Peas would blend in and remain un-noticed, even if dropped quite close in so we opted for Maple Peas.

We knew we would need to start well before the start of the season, we were trying to “condition†the fish to feed in or at the very least visit our chosen area, this would not be an over night task, but we did need the water to be warm enough for the fish to be cruising about, so the start date was set for mid April.

Our plan was simple, we needed to place a Maple Pea in every square yard of the bottom from one side of the river to the other, this would be done by catapult, mainly firing the Maples high into the air to get maximum spread and we started with an area of approximately 200 yds of bank space.
So every two days we would bait this area, I would do a Tuesday, Mike would do Thursday and I would do Saturday, Mike would follow on Monday and would do Wednesday and so on.
I suspect seeing a chap in a three piece suit with a bucket, catapulting something all over the place made the odd boat owner scratch his head, but we kept it up, come rain or shine, every other evening.
We wanted the fish to see bait all the time, we wanted them confident and un-afraid, to accept that if they swam a few feet they would see a Maple, in fact Maples would be as common as pebble and twigs on the bottom!

Once we felt we had achieved this we started to narrow and reduce the area we baited, slowly bit by bit we reduced the area and while reducing the area we started to introduce small amounts of Hemp until we were only baiting the centre deepest channel over a spread of about 5-6 swims and for the last week before the start of the season we started to introduce Hemp in larger quantities but made sure we were very much more accurate with our baiting, ensuring it only went in where we planned to fish.

With the start of the season, we would arrive, put in 4-6 pints of Hemp with a bait dropper, into the centre of the boat channel, ONLY, in an area the size of a small dinner table and just before we cast out we would put in about two pints of Maggots, again by dropper.
To be honest casting a standard bait dropper 25-30yds is quite hard work, if we missed the spot we would not let the dropper open, but wind in and re-cast, accuracy would be everything.
The rigs were simple running rigs, with Maggot feeders and Maggots as hookbait.

What usually happened was that Bleak would kick off proceedings, followed by Dace and then Bream, we would re-cast every 2-3 minuets or as soon as the feeder was empty, while the small fish were about plastic baits were the hookbait but once the bigger fish moved in real ones did the trick.

Did it work?

Well it did to a point, we did not catch any big Barbel, in fact we only had two doubles, to be honest we had far more double figure Bream, although we did not catch many Bream at all and to cap it all at the start of August the heavens opened and the river went into huge flood which kind of stopped our singing in church, so we only had about 6 weeks worth of fishing!
When we did fish we kept the bait going in, during this period Mike and I fished about twice a week, with the odd extra evening if we could get away with it, BUT in those 6 weeks we had 167 Barbel between us, mostly between 6-9lb and it was great fun!!

So if you think it is worth it…………………………………………?

Tight lines chaps.

This is still one of the greatest posts I have ever seen on any fishing forum, both in terms of the achievement of the campaign itself and its adaptability as a model, not to mention its sheer satisfying quality as an angling story. I've been inspired by this strategy and adapted it on more than one river over the past few years, on a smaller scale to match the situation and time of year of course, and realised I'd never properly acknowledged the inspiration. Thank you. ;)
 
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This is still one of the greatest posts I have ever seen on any fishing forum, both in terms of the achievement of the campaign itself and its adaptability as a model, not to mention its sheer satisfying quality as an angling story. I've been inspired by this strategy and adapted it on more than one river over the past few years, on a smaller scale to match the situation and time of year of course, and realised I'd never properly acknowledged the inspiration. Thank you. ;)
 
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