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different strokes for different folks?

D

David Gauntlett

Senior Member
Hi Guys,

This is a question I have bought up before...but have yet to find the answers that satisfy my curiosity....so I am having another go (boring sod :D)

We are all anglers, doing roughly similar things in any given situation, in our bid to catch the fish of our dreams. Despite that, we seem to arrive at a bewildering range of astonishingly different opinions regarding the qualities or virtues of the kit we use and test in our search for angling perfection.

The recent thread on 'What reel line?' is what bought it back to mind for me. As in any thread of the 'What....' variety, the answers were as varied as the people writing them, each swearing undying devotion to one or other of a number of vastly different products. Some years ago, in carp fishing in particular, Daiwa Sensor would have come pretty high on the popularity charts, whereas on this forum it failed to appear at all, but 'Big Game' (in clear) seemed to prove slightly more popular than most (Another old carpers stalwart :D)

My personal experience, and that of many other anglers, of both of those lines was very different to that of the devotees. Sensor I found to be a dreadful line. For instance, if you were ever faced with a solid 'pull to break' situation, caused either by a serious snag, or a far bank tree (Not that that last has ever happened to me of course, cough...:p) then the length of line involved, be it 10m or 100m....was finished. It seemed that once stretched, it stayed stretched, and was horribly reduced in breaking strain from then on. Not only that, but the line invariably seemed to fail, for no known reason, after an indeterminate period of use. Those who loved it recognised those problems, but claimed it didn't matter because it was SO very cheap you could afford to change it regularly :eek: Sorry, but that doesn't cut it for me! Big Game I found great, but despite using the latest (back then) 'twist buster' bail arm rollers....was horribly prone to infuriating levels of line twist :mad:

Now....I don't doubt for one second that these lines (and the reels we use them on come to that) have improved immeasurably since my time using them (a long time ago :D), but the fact remains....why at that time did I, and many others, have such a different experience or view of those two lines, to the probably equal numbers of other anglers who loved them?

The same question can be asked of almost any item of angling kit you care to mention....the furious arguements that have raged on here at times can testify to that :p. So why? Why is it that when you and I pick up a rod and give it a try, chances are that one of us will love it....and one hate it? Why do some absolutely love centre pin reels to bits, swearing that they are the ultimate angling tool...while others hate them with a vengeance and condemn them as useless, old fashioned toys?

It is all way beyond merely different styles of angling, or some folks love of old traditional gear etc., etc....we all just seem to come to vastly different conclusions as to what is a suitable tool to cope with any given situation. Damned good job carpenters or builders or whatever are not as contrary as us lot, isn't it? :D

Can anyone come up with some sound logic to explain this peculiarity we anglers have? I know the same thing is true to a limited extent in most sports, but to nowhere near the same degree of weirdness as us lot :D

Cheers, Dave.
 
Nothing weird about it. We all have different tastes whether it comes to music, food, cars, the opposite sex, art etc etc. There has never been a de facto best of anything. We like what we like, if that doesn't correspond to what one other person likes, never mind a majority, who really cares? I actually enjoy finding stuff out for myself rather than purely following the most commonly recommended items on forums. Sometimes this ends up with me having what everyone else has. Sometimes it's meant that I have stuff that no one else has a good word to say about.

I'd suggest that if you wish to see exactly the same type of forum shenanigans about "what's best?", then take a look at pretty much any specialist forum from shooting through golf and Hi-Fi to photography. You'll rarely, if ever, see a general concencus agreeing that X or Y is best.
Even in single subject forums such as those for bands or manufacturers, people will argue about which single track or single product is better than the others. Even then they'll rarely reach a majority decision of "what's best".
 
Chris is spot on there. If you want real disagreements, try hanging out in a football forum for a while!

As for your experiences with Big Game, I'm currently using it on two different reels - a trusty Epix Pro and a Korum KXi that I won at the BFW charity day. I've had problems with line twist on the Korum, but not on the Okuma. This is a reminder that there are many factors that affect an anglers perception or experiences of a product, including the combination of the products used, as well as the type of venue, river, swim-choice, fish-size ... and of course what the angler is looking to get out of his fishing!

What is interesting is the difference responses to the same question in different threads. In the recent reel line thread, Sensor wasn't mentioned, but it has figured highly in previous threads. Big Game always got a few recommendations but seemed to dominate the recent thread, whereas GR60 has been recommended a lot in some threads, but hardly got a mention this time. I also suspect there are some who are tempted to concur with a recommendation rather than making one in the first place. Perhaps if someone had said "I use Sensor, it's brilliant", a few others may have joined in with "yes, I rate it as well". (I'm not criticising, it's just human nature).

I guess it also depends on who is on the forum at the time of the thread and who's posting.
 
Andy Millichamp said:
Are they not? I bet if you got a few brickies together they would all disagree about the best tools/ materials/techniques.
Click to expand...
I've got some builder friends, i want to bang their heads together going on about dewalt V makita, drives me mad!
makes 'what rod' threads have nothing on this..:D
 
David Gauntlett said:
Can anyone come up with some sound logic to explain this peculiarity we anglers have? I know the same thing is true to a limited extent in most sports, but to nowhere near the same degree of weirdness as us lot :D

Cheers, Dave.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's because we have too much choice? Or we make the whole sport too complicated? After a very long break I got back into coarse fishing again last year - first time I walked into Fosters I broke into a cold sweat when confronted by the massed ranks of rods etc. As for bait . . . . when I were a lad coloured maggots were considered exotic baits (fortunately it seems fish still eat luncheon meat and bread so I'm coping OK with that).
 
It's the old saying Dave .... One mans food is another mans poison :rolleyes:

I guess the reason that phrase was coined because no one could come up with a better reasoning for just the kind of question you ask.

I think if a lot of folks out there like me have had a bad experience of a product - that's it it must be rubbish ! instead of giving it a scond try, i was once unlucky enough to buy a defective spool of Big Game, and being so trusting of it i didn't check it, and i lost a good fish, but given my past experiences with it i knew it had to be a bad batch, i tested it by wrapping it around my hands and pulling, and it must have snapped at 2 or 3 lbs, i pulled of yards, and repeated several times with the same result, if it had been any other product, i would have never used it again.

There are so many products out there of every item of tackle we use, it would be nigh on impossible to try and test them all out, so when anglers - again like me after haveing gone through a few of them find one that suits me because it ticks all the boxes tend to stop there, and say this is it - this is the one, and rarely change, then when answering threads like 'Which reel line' tend to swear their undying devotion to their chosen product.

Every one of us believing we use the best, having each gone through our little trials over the years, so why is it that so many have differing opinions of all the different products we use...... we are right back to square one !! and that phrase - One mans food is another mans poison, i'll bet anyone buying a spool from that faulty batch i had bought from would never go near Big Game again, the same for me when i have bought hooks in the past that opened out on me the first time i tested them, they've gone in the bin and never trusted the product again.
A good product should shine through though, especially if it's been around for a few years, and usually the real rubbish doesn't stay the course that long, so i reckon the closest answer is that there are plenty of really good products out there, but most like me have never tried most of them, and settle on - and recomend - that which has proven itself when using it to be good quality, and that's the way it'll always be.
Maybe we ought to have a thread ( think it's been done recently ) of the worst tackle we've used ;) :D :D

Ian.
 
Manufacturers*of anything will always make different things because we all like different things if we didn't we might all be driving a Ford it's a world we live in that everybody tries to better what they have or someone tries to invent things that are better!. If we all liked the same thing from cars to absolutely anything it would be one boring world. As we are all individuals and think for ourselves we differ from eachother which ends up with us all having different things and different things still trying to be bettered and it also brings to light money because every manufacturer is out to make money and will make anything sound a bargain that's why they put £69.99 rather than £70.00 because it looks cheaper. Anyways lads that's my view on it, be it right or wrong
Regards
 
Chris Jones said:
Nothing weird about it. We all have different tastes whether it comes to music, food, cars, the opposite sex, art etc etc. There has never been a de facto best of anything. We like what we like, if that doesn't correspond to what one other person likes, never mind a majority, who really cares? I actually enjoy finding stuff out for myself rather than purely following the most commonly recommended items on forums. Sometimes this ends up with me having what everyone else has. Sometimes it's meant that I have stuff that no one else has a good word to say about.

I'd suggest that if you wish to see exactly the same type of forum shenanigans about "what's best?", then take a look at pretty much any specialist forum from shooting through golf and Hi-Fi to photography. You'll rarely, if ever, see a general concencus agreeing that X or Y is best.
Even in single subject forums such as those for bands or manufacturers, people will argue about which single track or single product is better than the others. Even then they'll rarely reach a majority decision of "what's best".
Click to expand...

I agree on the whole Chris, although there are certain items of tackle...such as line (the main subject of my query) and hooks, that are surely either good or bad....although there are of course a lot of these items that are marginal :D However, you either safely land the majority of your fish because the line and hooks were up to the job....or you don't. Obviously skills and balanced tackle have a great baring on that....but all other things being equal, that is surely a fact. There are some dire lines out there, that need to be used at well over your normal breaking to be of any use at all, but which still get used because of their sinking qualities for instance....despite the fact that there are far better lines available to do the job. There are hooks which are so soft they either at least partially open under strain, and others that virtually always come back with the tip turned over if they are used within 100m of gravel :D....and yet all these items continue to have devotees who swear by them.

Rods and reels? not nearly as cut and dried a situation, because preferred action, price, manufacturing materials (and manufacturer) and so on all have an effect on choice. However, there are still good and bad out there. I remember one or two models (mostly with cheaper brands) of carp rods a good few years back that had to be some of the worst bits of kit ever put on the market, with dire casting actions and unacceptably high breakage rates...and yet even they had their admirers. And before you say it....I know I have asked advice on rods myself, fairly recently....but only because I could no longer afford the luxury of trial and error, and I am no longer part of my old 'grapevine'! Not that I ever needed (or could afford) to do a huge amount of that, 'cos back then the choices were far more limited, and as I say, word soon got round....to those prepared to listen :p

Ancillary gear like rod bags, clothing and the like is a tad different....it doesn't have a direct bearing on tempting, hooking and safely landing fish...but even then, I am astonished at times when I see kit which I know to be rubbish being recommended by others.

Now I think about it, perhaps I should have used a different title for this thread....perhaps it should have read 'why do some things which are total **** still seem to have devotees'? I have not been a victim of dodgy recommendations myself for a long time....but I do see it going on :p

Cheers, Dave.
 
Advertising plays a massive role and by that I also include the recommendations given by 'amateur' anglers who have earned a reputation for catching big fish on a regular basis. Confidence is also major factor as deep down it affects us all (some to a lesser degree) so once we've found something that works well we tend to stick with it. Then there's all the stuff mentioned above.

Going off thread slightly, a big thanks to David for bringing up the issue of line damage due to having to pull for a break. Daft as it seems it has never occured to me to discard the length of line involved at the time. Sure enough I've discarded the bit at the end but it's certainly made me think of what I've got away with in the past! I'll certainly be more careful in the future.
 
David Gauntlett said:
I agree on the whole Chris, although there are certain items of tackle...such as line (the main subject of my query) and hooks, that are surely either good or bad....although there are of course a lot of these items that are marginal :D However, you either safely land the majority of your fish because the line and hooks were up to the job....or you don't. Obviously skills and balanced tackle have a great baring on that....but all other things being equal, that is surely a fact. There are some dire lines out there, that need to be used at well over your normal breaking to be of any use at all, but which still get used because of their sinking qualities for instance....despite the fact that there are far better lines available to do the job. There are hooks which are so soft they either at least partially open under strain, and others that virtually always come back with the tip turned over if they are used within 100m of gravel :D....and yet all these items continue to have devotees who swear by them.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's nearly as cut and dried as you think. Lines, like you I detest Sensor, I think it's utter rubbish. Lot's of folks seem to love the stuff. Who is right? Who is wrong? Is it simply because I've loaded it incorrectly? Because I play fish in a different way to others? Use it in different environments to others? Have I had a bad batch (or three;))? I neither know nor care, I think it's rubbish and no amount of folks telling me it's great are going to change that.

Hooks are the same. Some folks play fish much more gently than others. They can get away with much finer guage hooks. Someone more heavy handed would be liable to open finer hooks up. Does that make those fine hooks useless or just useless for certain individuals? You talk of hookpoints turning, I've had that exact experience of a very popular brand which I avoid at all costs. However, I tend to fish rivers and lakes with very stony beds. Had I been fishing more silty/muddy waters would I have ever noticed? Is that why some use gear I'd never dream of? I suspect so.

In my experience it's actually fairly unusual for a product that's so appalling, as to achieve universal condemnation, to even come to market. There's a fair bet that it'll suit someone, somewhere right down to the ground. Likewise, I've yet to encounter many products so good as to achieve universal acclaim. Even if the only reason it fails to be universal is an excessive price tag or lack of availability.
 
Must admit i use sensor line for a lot of fishing, not because i think its the best line out there but its reasonably decent and cheap, about six pounds for 1000+ yards. I have never swam down and had a look to see how it sits on the river bed but, then again, i never worry about changing it for something else if i want to.

Stephen
 
Andy Millichamp said:
Chris is spot on there. If you want real disagreements, try hanging out in a football forum for a while!

As for your experiences with Big Game, I'm currently using it on two different reels - a trusty Epix Pro and a Korum KXi that I won at the BFW charity day. I've had problems with line twist on the Korum, but not on the Okuma. This is a reminder that there are many factors that affect an anglers perception or experiences of a product, including the combination of the products used, as well as the type of venue, river, swim-choice, fish-size ... and of course what the angler is looking to get out of his fishing!

What is interesting is the difference responses to the same question in different threads. In the recent reel line thread, Sensor wasn't mentioned, but it has figured highly in previous threads. Big Game always got a few recommendations but seemed to dominate the recent thread, whereas GR60 has been recommended a lot in some threads, but hardly got a mention this time. I also suspect there are some who are tempted to concur with a recommendation rather than making one in the first place. Perhaps if someone had said "I use Sensor, it's brilliant", a few others may have joined in with "yes, I rate it as well". (I'm not criticising, it's just human nature).

I guess it also depends on who is on the forum at the time of the thread and who's posting.
Click to expand...

All good points Andy, and the effects different reels can have on a line may well be significant in my case. The reel I used when I was suffering twist probs with Big Game were old Shimanos, with relatively small spools. Having said that, a number of my friends suffered similar problems with that line at that time. Also, it may as I said, be a much improved product by now.

Cheers, Dave.
 
Andy Millichamp said:
Are they not? I bet if you got a few brickies together they would all disagree about the best tools/ materials/techniques.
Click to expand...

:D Accepted, can't argue that....but at least they (rip off merchants apart) agree to build the house following similar, accepted building methods....we hope :D

Cheers, Dave.
 
Neil Hotchin said:
Maybe it's because we have too much choice? Or we make the whole sport too complicated? After a very long break I got back into coarse fishing again last year - first time I walked into Fosters I broke into a cold sweat when confronted by the massed ranks of rods etc. As for bait . . . . when I were a lad coloured maggots were considered exotic baits (fortunately it seems fish still eat luncheon meat and bread so I'm coping OK with that).
Click to expand...

You do have a point there Neil.

Cheers, Dave.
 
Ian Grant said:
It's the old saying Dave .... One mans food is another mans poison :rolleyes:

I guess the reason that phrase was coined because no one could come up with a better reasoning for just the kind of question you ask.

I think if a lot of folks out there like me have had a bad experience of a product - that's it it must be rubbish ! instead of giving it a scond try, i was once unlucky enough to buy a defective spool of Big Game, and being so trusting of it i didn't check it, and i lost a good fish, but given my past experiences with it i knew it had to be a bad batch, i tested it by wrapping it around my hands and pulling, and it must have snapped at 2 or 3 lbs, i pulled of yards, and repeated several times with the same result, if it had been any other product, i would have never used it again.

There are so many products out there of every item of tackle we use, it would be nigh on impossible to try and test them all out, so when anglers - again like me after haveing gone through a few of them find one that suits me because it ticks all the boxes tend to stop there, and say this is it - this is the one, and rarely change, then when answering threads like 'Which reel line' tend to swear their undying devotion to their chosen product.

Every one of us believing we use the best, having each gone through our little trials over the years, so why is it that so many have differing opinions of all the different products we use...... we are right back to square one !! and that phrase - One mans food is another mans poison, i'll bet anyone buying a spool from that faulty batch i had bought from would never go near Big Game again, the same for me when i have bought hooks in the past that opened out on me the first time i tested them, they've gone in the bin and never trusted the product again.
A good product should shine through though, especially if it's been around for a few years, and usually the real rubbish doesn't stay the course that long, so i reckon the closest answer is that there are plenty of really good products out there, but most like me have never tried most of them, and settle on - and recomend - that which has proven itself when using it to be good quality, and that's the way it'll always be.
Maybe we ought to have a thread ( think it's been done recently ) of the worst tackle we've used ;) :D :D

Ian.
Click to expand...

I entirely agree with you Ian, there is an awful lot to be said for sticking with a product which is undeniably good, and suits you, (rogue batches apart :p) and studiously ignoring the barrage of newer products until trusted friends threaten to throw your old stuff into the river :D Never seen the point in changing when what you are using still does all you want of it :p

Cheers, Dave.
 
Wayne Glossop said:
Manufacturers*of anything will always make different things because we all like different things if we didn't we might all be driving a Ford it's a world we live in that everybody tries to better what they have or someone tries to invent things that are better!. If we all liked the same thing from cars to absolutely anything it would be one boring world. As we are all individuals and think for ourselves we differ from eachother which ends up with us all having different things and different things still trying to be bettered and it also brings to light money because every manufacturer is out to make money and will make anything sound a bargain that's why they put £69.99 rather than £70.00 because it looks cheaper. Anyways lads that's my view on it, be it right or wrong
Regards
Click to expand...

Right on Wayne :D

Cheers, Dave.
 
if we were all the same what a boring world it would be... different strokes for different folks.. and what ever bit of kit you have you will defend because you think it right, because it is right for you...then you go into sales man mode trying to explain why it is best thing like sliced bread...;);)
 
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