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hook sizes Ggggrrrrr when is an 8 not an 8 ?

Gerry Giles

Gerry Giles

Senior Member & Supporter
Blimey how can a size 8 or a size 6 vary so much between makes ? its blooming crazy !!!!
EVEN THE SAME MAKE !!!!!!!!!

I got a packet of Drennan size 8 Specimen plus and a packet of Drennan specialist Barbel size 8 they are no where near the same size ???
 
Can anyone clarify exactly how hook sizes are measured? Given that you have short and long shanks and wide gapes as well as the standard gape, not to mention inturned, straight or out-turned eyes, turned in points etc. etc..!!

I have some size 14 Mustad method hooks that are larger than some of the 10s in my hook collection. It really is a mystery and I just wonder how much of it is science and how much is art?


Dave
 
Bob Gill said:
Quite common I'm afraid - Owner hooks used to have some very 'odd' sizes.
Click to expand...

I'll go along with that, I was making up some barbel and carp rigs yesterday using various patterns of Owner hooks all nominally the same size but the gauge, gape and eye size varies considerably from pattern to pattern.
 
Gerry Giles said:
Blimey how can a size 8 or a size 6 vary so much between makes ? its blooming crazy !!!!
EVEN THE SAME MAKE !!!!!!!!!

I got a packet of Drennan size 8 Specimen plus and a packet of Drennan specialist Barbel size 8 they are no where near the same size ???
Click to expand...
Exactly why have never bought hooks mail order, always gone into a tackle shop to size the different makes and patterns up.
 
David Clewer said:
Can anyone clarify exactly how hook sizes are measured? Given that you have short and long shanks and wide gapes as well as the standard gape, not to mention inturned, straight or out-turned eyes, turned in points etc. etc..!!

I have some size 14 Mustad method hooks that are larger than some of the 10s in my hook collection. It really is a mystery and I just wonder how much of it is science and how much is art?


Dave
Click to expand...

I understand that sizing was mostly based on the gape measurement with reference to the Redditch Scale. Even finding references to the Redditch Scale is fairly difficult, which suggests that it's been defunct for a while, probably since the majority of hook manufacturing moved to the far east.

There's a good section on hook scales on this website.

I have 16s that seem bigger than most 12s. I have 10s that are smaller than most 14s. Sometimes they are from quite disparate brands, occasionally from exactly the same brand. The bottom line is that I rarely buy hooks blind these days. You can never quite tell what might turn up from a photograph on a website.
 
It is all male bovine excreta.

A wide gape 14 is a twelve etc.etc.

Just look at a packet and decide if that is what you are looking for.
 
That's all very well, Colin, but doesn't explain how two hooks can be different sizes to the eye (excuse pun!), but the same size according to the packets.


Dave
 
Yup I have wondered about this for a while, particularly irritating ordering hooks for fly tying. What is the difference say, between a wide gape 12 vs a short shank 10? Absolutely none, in theory they are the same thing with different marketing spiel...in reality they could be sizes apart you just never know. I just won't order online unless it's a product I am familiar with and actually know what I'm getting.

I do have some sympathy for the tackle manufacturers, with no common standardised sizes to work with where is your point of reference?...especially when I can go into one shop and buy some trousers in a 34...yet can't get one bloody leg into a 34 in the next...and those clowns have got the imperial system to work with and still can't get it right...same goes for shoes...or maybe I should just lay off the doughnuts...
 
Colin Bridger said:
It is all male bovine excreta.

A wide gape 14 is a twelve etc.etc.

Just look at a packet and decide if that is what you are looking for.
Click to expand...

Agreed, I don't really know what the problem is, we all have a selection of hooks I would think, just match to the hatch.:)
 
There doesn't seem to be a standard gap measurement that is universal to a particular hook size nowadays. Mustad gauge is still popular especially in the States, but there are umpteen others , mostly Far East where most are manufactured.
Hook actual size charts usually give a comparison between hooks with no mention of a standard.
I've still got a pack of Jack Hilton 10's,... if compared to Fox Arma's they are half as big again including gap.
I'm surprised that same name brands differ, unless the manufacturers tooling has worn, thereby producing a run of undersized hooks before being replaced.
Doubtful though, because there would be a regular production line inspection.
As has been said,.. have a look before purchasing.
 
The main problem is there is no agreement between manufacturers on hook sizes. There seems to no true sizing these days. Years ago in the dark ages when all the hooks we used were made in the UK, they seemed to be a standardized sizing code. Buy a size 10 from one UK manufacturer and it was the same from another. But since 99% come from Chinese factories now Joe public has to ignore the size written on the packets and guess by eyesight. That's the reason i will only buy from the internet if i know the hook first.
 
A lot of issues started around 15 years ago when commercial fisheries started banning hooks above size 10 and similar rules.One club water i used to fish stated size 16 and below could be barbed and anything bigger had to be barbless. One match fishing manufacturer (preston?)then started to make their hooks bigger seemingly to bypass rules and size 10 hooks suddenly became 14's and some others followed. Fox were producing size 20 hooks that were like 14's
 
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