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Fish killer - a surprising culprit, you say?

Surely before posting this you might understand that since 2004 it has been illegal to hunt with dogs for Mammals in this country.

Posts such as this do Angling no favours really, there is no way forward in Angling taking the law into it's own hands, unless of course you want all Anglers to feel the backlash.
What is this backlash you speak of?, I keep hearing this, oh we must not upset the general public because they'll turn on anglers.

Fishing will be here long after you, your children and children's children and so on and so on are gone.

Otters were and always will be a pest, they needed to be controlled back then, and they need to be controlled now.

The day will come when they are taken off the protected species list, after all they certainly aren't endangered no more that is for sure, they should have no more protection than a Rabbit, Fox, Rat or Mink.
 
What is this backlash you speak of?, I keep hearing this, oh we must not upset the general public because they'll turn on anglers.

Fishing will be here long after you, your children and children's children and so on and so on are gone.

Otters were and always will be a pest, they needed to be controlled back then, and they need to be controlled now.

The day will come when they are taken off the protected species list, after all they certainly aren't endangered no more that is for sure, they should have no more protection than a Rabbit, Fox, Rat or Mink.
.

I think we do need to be careful what we say with regard to culling Otters . Basically the '' public '' think of anglers as slightly eccentric but harmless individuals who sit out in the rain , staring at the water . By and large Joe public does not give a stuff about the welfare of fish , they are just cold slimy things that are there to be eaten ,or caught and chucked back .However with Otters' they' do care, and if anglers are perceived as proponents of Otter killing they WILL raise a storm and as a result angling with it's rather dubious practice of sticking hooks in poor fish and shouting for the slaughter of Otters and predatory birds could find itself under very close and unfriendly scrutiny . The perception change from innocent harmless eccentrics to cruel inflictors of pain and death could happen remarkably quickly . After all the traditional sport of Fox and indeed Otter hunting found themselves outlawed as the public didn't like the cut of the hunters jib , and when you boil it down to it's essence ,angling is hunting .

This is not to say that we as anglers should meekly roll over and keep stum , however we should avoid the sensational' kill em all 'standpoint and take the more measured view of explaining to the wildlife groups and lobbyists that we are all guardians of the countryside and if we work together and share our common interests then it can be a win win .The most obvious common ground/ mutual interest is the preservation of still and running water from excessive abstraction , habitat destruction , and pollution and making sure that fish of all species thrive , as without fish a whole eco system would collapse. . Anglers and wildlife groups MUST work together , it is the only way forward .
 
Mike, encapsulates everything I would want to say, but you have said so eloquently.

The funny thing is Neil, I agree with almost everything Mike has said, and have said much the same things myself on these threads a number of times. Does that mean that Mike is a 'leftie' too?

However, I am very used to your constant jabs at me for everything, and up untill now, I have pretty much let it woosh over my head. You have always utterly refused to even acknowledge my constantly made point that I DO NOT HATE OTTERS (is that loud enough for you dear boy?) My anger is directed squarely at the selfish, unthinking morons who decided to speed up the natural return of otters by reintroducing unnatural cage/hand reared ones...at a time when most of our rivers are utterly unable to support them...did that get through this time Neil?

Otters were making a natural come-back anyway (due to the fact that the farming chemicals that caused their issues had been banned). So, is it beyond you to see that instead of interfering with nature once more, the money, time and effort spent on this nonsense were better spent on improving the riverine habitat, so that there might be a healthy fish stock once more that COULD support a natural level of otters?

The truth is Neil, whether you like it or not, there is a VERY big over abundance of predators in our waters at the moment. We have an absolute plague of non indigenous crayfish eating the eggs and fry of all species of our fish, we have a super abundance of indigenous and non indigenous cormorants devestating many fisheries by eating the small to medium fish (and they are protected except in special circumstances), we have goosanders doing the same, we have introduced mink taking medium to large fish, we have introduced zander and catfish to join our indigenous pike and perch, to play their part in this slaughter fest. Worst of all, this has all come about at at time when on MANY rivers the general water quality falls WAY below EEC guidelines, and now new chemicals have appeared that render our fish infertile.

So, I will ask you this Neil...in all your dreams and fevered imaginings, can you seriously think of a WORSE time to interfere with nature yet again, by unnaturally speeding up the return of yet another predator to add to that already impessive list? It doesn't matter a jot that they are an indiginous species Neil, that they 'have a right to be here', and all the other waffle. Whatever you say, now is NOT the time, our delicately balanced fish stocks of ALL species need these like they need a hole in the head, OK? Left to their own devices, they would have returned naturally...they did NOT need us to interfere and speed that process up. The fish have enough to deal with!

As for acusing me of/criticising me for holding 'leftie' political views...for one thing, I am entitled to hold any political view I wish, it is a right and freedom bestowed on ANY person in this land. Secondly, the reason you have accused me of holding such views is because I recently wrote a piece in which I strongly criticised this government for contemplating cutting back on the numbers of cancer treating/life saving drugs available to doctors in this country (a policy which has enraged cancer specialists), purely as a cost cutting exersise.

I mentioned that they were doing this despite having awarded themselves a huge salary increase. In my anger at this news, I went on to contemplate whether the real terrorists in this world all came from abroad. And you criticised me roundly for that dear chap. I have more than once explained that my wife has Non Hodgkins Lymphoma, a cancer for which there is no outright cure, the best they can do is put her into remission by the use of chemo therapy. When it does come back (and they assure me it will), then all they can do is use chemo to put her into remission again. And guess what? Rituximab, the most successful drug they have, their best chance of helping her....is one of those that they now intend to refuse to allow doctors to have.....to save money. Build a pointless, £60/70 billion railway, to save twenty minutes getting to Birmingham or wherever, no probs. Unbelievably, they have no problems with killing cancer suffers either, to save a few pounds ....and you can't see why I am angry Neil, why I question the difference between their ethics and those of the people who similarly have no problems in killing innocent people in foreighn lands.

All I can say Neil is that you are entiteled to your political views, the same as I am to mine. However, I am absolutely thrilled and utterly relieved that my way of thinking in general is not in any way similar to yours.

Dave.
 
Dave, I don't wish to spiral this thread downwards into a tit for tat
argument that will just serve no purpose except to miss the point regarding the subject matter.
However cast your mind back to the welcome salvo you gave me back when the new BFW came into being, it was based around the Carp scene then, and your assumption I disliked all things Carp, I did not then, and I don't now, but your comments were out of order, so please don't portray yourself as the victim and me the nasty bully.
However you continue in much the same vein, although carefully hidden with huge multiple smilies, to be honest Dave I don't give a hoot what you think regarding the Otter, what gets my back up is when argue that this Government you liken to terrorists and I assume IS, you have a right as you say to hold a political view, but you seem to rant on about anything and everything other than the original subject. I now have a fevered imagination, etc etc, fine, but please Dave calm down Dear, it's only fishing.
 
The funny thing is Neil, I agree with almost everything Mike has said, and have said much the same things myself on these threads a number of times. Does that mean that Mike is a 'leftie' too?

However, I am very used to your constant jabs at me for everything, and up untill now, I have pretty much let it woosh over my head. You have always utterly refused to even acknowledge my constantly made point that I DO NOT HATE OTTERS (is that loud enough for you dear boy?) My anger is directed squarely at the selfish, unthinking morons who decided to speed up the natural return of otters by reintroducing unnatural cage/hand reared ones...at a time when most of our rivers are utterly unable to support them...did that get through this time Neil?

Otters were making a natural come-back anyway (due to the fact that the farming chemicals that caused their issues had been banned). So, is it beyond you to see that instead of interfering with nature once more, the money, time and effort spent on this nonsense were better spent on improving the riverine habitat, so that there might be a healthy fish stock once more that COULD support a natural level of otters?

The truth is Neil, whether you like it or not, there is a VERY big over abundance of predators in our waters at the moment. We have an absolute plague of non indigenous crayfish eating the eggs and fry of all species of our fish, we have a super abundance of indigenous and non indigenous cormorants devestating many fisheries by eating the small to medium fish (and they are protected except in special circumstances), we have goosanders doing the same, we have introduced mink taking medium to large fish, we have introduced zander and catfish to join our indigenous pike and perch, to play their part in this slaughter fest. Worst of all, this has all come about at at time when on MANY rivers the general water quality falls WAY below EEC guidelines, and now new chemicals have appeared that render our fish infertile.

So, I will ask you this Neil...in all your dreams and fevered imaginings, can you seriously think of a WORSE time to interfere with nature yet again, by unnaturally speeding up the return of yet another predator to add to that already impessive list? It doesn't matter a jot that they are an indiginous species Neil, that they 'have a right to be here', and all the other waffle. Whatever you say, now is NOT the time, our delicately balanced fish stocks of ALL species need these like they need a hole in the head, OK? Left to their own devices, they would have returned naturally...they did NOT need us to interfere and speed that process up. The fish have enough to deal with!

As for acusing me of/criticising me for holding 'leftie' political views...for one thing, I am entitled to hold any political view I wish, it is a right and freedom bestowed on ANY person in this land. Secondly, the reason you have accused me of holding such views is because I recently wrote a piece in which I strongly criticised this government for contemplating cutting back on the numbers of cancer treating/life saving drugs available to doctors in this country (a policy which has enraged cancer specialists), purely as a cost cutting exersise.

I mentioned that they were doing this despite having awarded themselves a huge salary increase. In my anger at this news, I went on to contemplate whether the real terrorists in this world all came from abroad. And you criticised me roundly for that dear chap. I have more than once explained that my wife has Non Hodgkins Lymphoma, a cancer for which there is no outright cure, the best they can do is put her into remission by the use of chemo therapy. When it does come back (and they assure me it will), then all they can do is use chemo to put her into remission again. And guess what? Rituximab, the most successful drug they have, their best chance of helping her....is one of those that they now intend to refuse to allow doctors to have.....to save money. Build a pointless, £60/70 billion railway, to save twenty minutes getting to Birmingham or wherever, no probs. Unbelievably, they have no problems with killing cancer suffers either, to save a few pounds ....and you can't see why I am angry Neil, why I question the difference between their ethics and those of the people who similarly have no problems in killing innocent people in foreighn lands.

All I can say Neil is that you are entiteled to your political views, the same as I am to mine. However, I am absolutely thrilled and utterly relieved that my way of thinking in general is not in any way similar to yours.

Dave.

I absolutely agree with everything you have said about Otters, not only Otters but this self serving pick on the weakest bully of a government that couldn't give a toss about the most vunerable in the country so long as they and their mates are raking it in!
 
Neil. I think if you look back you may find that YOU actually started the personal attacks.

Bear that in mind for your future rants please.
 
Neil. I think if you look back you may find that YOU actually started the personal attacks.

Bear that in mind for your future rants please.

You really should get your facts right Graham, but then again your view is skewed with regards to facts vs fiction, not your problem, stay out of it.
 
I absolutely agree with everything you have said about Otters, not only Otters but this self serving pick on the weakest bully of a government that couldn't give a toss about the most vunerable in the country so long as they and their mates are raking it in!

Really what a load of garbage, to compare Otter to a so called corrupt Government that turns its back on the weak and poor, what a pathetic bunch any casual reader of this forum might consider us Anglers are.

Hopefully they will understand we are not all fruit loops.
 
Guys you can argue as much as you like between your selves . My own personal opinion on Otters . Like them or hate them . Culling will never happen and any one who believes that this government or the next government will pass a law to allow the culling of Otters is in my opinion Living in cloud cuckoo land .
 
Joe said


Living in cloud cuckoo land

That's summat else that needs blasting, making those little birds bring up their monster chicks :D
 
Really what a load of garbage, to compare Otter to a so called corrupt Government that turns its back on the weak and poor, what a pathetic bunch any casual reader of this forum might consider us Anglers are.

Hopefully they will understand we are not all fruit loops.

So I am a fruit loop am I (whatever that is) well sticks and stones and all that nah nah na nah nah. glad you are prepared to listen to others opinions, what your not, oh dear. :)
 
Culling otters

:)
Guys you can argue as much as you like between your selves . My own personal opinion on Otters . Like them or hate them . Culling will never happen and any one who believes that this government or the next government will pass a law to allow the culling of Otters is in my opinion Living in cloud cuckoo land .


regards from cloud cuckoo land:)
 
.

I think we do need to be careful what we say with regard to culling Otters . Basically the '' public '' think of anglers as slightly eccentric but harmless individuals who sit out in the rain , staring at the water . By and large Joe public does not give a stuff about the welfare of fish , they are just cold slimy things that are there to be eaten ,or caught and chucked back .However with Otters' they' do care, and if anglers are perceived as proponents of Otter killing they WILL raise a storm and as a result angling with it's rather dubious practice of sticking hooks in poor fish and shouting for the slaughter of Otters and predatory birds could find itself under very close and unfriendly scrutiny . The perception change from innocent harmless eccentrics to cruel inflictors of pain and death could happen remarkably quickly . After all the traditional sport of Fox and indeed Otter hunting found themselves outlawed as the public didn't like the cut of the hunters jib , and when you boil it down to it's essence ,angling is hunting .

This is not to say that we as anglers should meekly roll over and keep stum , however we should avoid the sensational' kill em all 'standpoint and take the more measured view of explaining to the wildlife groups and lobbyists that we are all guardians of the countryside and if we work together and share our common interests then it can be a win win .The most obvious common ground/ mutual interest is the preservation of still and running water from excessive abstraction , habitat destruction , and pollution and making sure that fish of all species thrive , as without fish a whole eco system would collapse. . Anglers and wildlife groups MUST work together , it is the only way forward .
Well'ish put Mike, but Angling will never be the next Fox Hunting.

There are way too many participants, businesses and livelyhoods involved for it to happen, name a country were Angling is outlawed, never going to happen.

The public like furry cute Foxes but accept they need to be controlled, farmers have rights to protect their stocks from Foxes and Mink, and the exact same should be applied to private fisheries and clubs with regard to Otters, where there is a problem with them.

The Otter is protected due to it being low in numbers 50/60 years ago, that can not be said today, they are present in every county in England, so we have got to ask how much longer will it be required to be protected?, the Rabbits, Rats, Mink and Mr Fox are not happy about this preferential treatment.

What message needs to get out there is just how destructive a predator the Otter is to anything that lives in and around our Waterways, including various species of Birds and Mammals, this is something the vast majority of Joe Public do not realise.

Like I said before, they are, were and always will be a pest that needs to be kept in check.
 
In Oz they say "there are no sharks in this area, the crocks ate them all". I can only assume that this was before these otters made a resurgence in their area as well :D:D:D

Cheers, Dave.
 
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