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Foul hooked fish

Graham Elliott said:
Dave T. No I was being lazy.

What is happening is not strikes from the feeder activity but exactly as Mark described.

David. I always use open end feeders as they allow me to control the food release better, according to the flow, by increasing dampness and composition etc of mix. A Very important point that many ignore.
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Hi Graham, the swims i have been using these cage feeders in are quite fast flowing so i do believe now that most of the feed is emptying quickly and no further than the hook bait 4 feet away(Initially). I have been after some of the korum open end feeders which are larger than the one's i have and would probably work better with the longer links. I will try much shorter links with the cage feeders next time i'm out.

Regards
Dave
 
Mark Swaby said:
The funny thing is in a month's time most of your barbel will come on a longer hooklength again Dave.The fish will have wised up to getting caught short,next to the feeder.Its always worth changing hook length up to about 6 feet whilst fishing to see if you get more action than with a short one.
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Very true Mark, I need a maxi rig board now to store all my links. My old hook wallet is full :eek:
 
Graham Elliott said:
Hi David. Thought I would measure my hooklinks and in fact they are nearer 18 inches not 9.

Re feeding. My whole idea is to actually bring the fish up towards the feeder that has mainly stiff ground bait and few particles. This especially on harder rivers where you are seeking better fish in a low density population.

On prolific rivers I would simply increase particles levels in the feed to keep the interest going. The biggest error I see is other anglers on big rivers with decent flow feeding the fish many yards downstream of where their bait sits.

Try making a mix that stays in the feeder by being dampened down and pressed in very firmly after a couple of casts with a drier mix and pulling the feed out as it hits bottom.

My mix stays in the feeder for about 20 mins and on big pushes often is still in the feeder when the fish is landed.
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I did think 9 inch was a little short when i first saw your post :p.
The rivers i fish do not have a high population of barbel so i don't cast very often once my bait is in position. The mix i use is a method feeder mix so is very stiff when just a small amount of water is added. But the micro's and hemp might just wash out of the middle of the groundbait plugs when using the cage feeders!
 
Dave,
as you cannot see the lost fish how do you know its a Barbel?
if you are fishing any bait on a hair the stretches you are fishing are occupied by some very clever Chub which believe you me will pick up the pellets with there lips and drop it during the fight.
Take the hair off superglue or band the pellet and you will more than likely catch a Chub usually 2-3pound.
Well done on your catch rate so far I wouldn't stress to much those Yorkshire Chub can be very clever
Ken
 
Ken Jones said:
Dave,
as you cannot see the lost fish how do you know its a Barbel?
if you are fishing any bait on a hair the stretches you are fishing are occupied by some very clever Chub which believe you me will pick up the pellets with there lips and drop it during the fight.
Take the hair off superglue or band the pellet and you will more than likely catch a Chub usually 2-3pound.
Well done on your catch rate so far I wouldn't stress to much those Yorkshire Chub can be very clever
Ken
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Hello Ken
All the fish have taken line with the clutch fairly tight before the hook has pulled, and some of the scales on the hook have been small not chub size. I would be surprised if a chub can hold a pellet so tight between its lips that it can pull line off a tightened clutch! :eek: Their bite would be worse than some of the dogs on my round :p.
I have some rigs set up with a slightly smaller hook and bait band for when i'm getting those chub pulls and plucks. I tried it recently on the derwent and caught a chub on the banded pellet. I sometimes have rigs with braided hairs so i can wrap the braid around the bend to shorten it if chub are present.
Tight Lines
Dave
 
Hi David, I think your initial suspicion that the micro's are holding the fish over your hooklink for longer is correct - Barbel love them and will hold station over the baited spot for as long as it takes for them to eat them all! They're obviously working though so don't ditch them. As Graham has suggested - a shorter hooklink is the first point of call, and no need for a backlead as the fish are obviously not being spooked by the line if they are approaching the feeder. I also agree that the way the groundbait is mixed is an import point often over looked but take a slightly different view/approach. In most cases I want my groundbait to still be in the feeder when it hits the deck - but once there I want it to break down quite quickly to allow the hemp and micros to disperse from the feeder. I'm not keen on a mix that stays in the feeder as (1) it takes the form of a large single source of attraction which in your case could well be drawing fish past your hookbait on their way to a proper mouthful and (2) I don't want bait to be coming out of the feeder on the retrieve or while playing fish as it ends up where I don't want it. Obviously some experimentation would be required to achieve the correct mix but I'd ditch the method mix for a start as that's bound to stick! One other option worth considering, depending on the swim in terms of fishing distance and depth, is a catapult. Fire a single pouch of micro pellets into the swim then go over the top with a straight lead. The pellets are likely to be spread over an area a few feet in diameter and this will force the Barbel to move around a lot more as they feed leading to a very positive bite when they pick up your hookbait.
 
Andrew. I would agree re method mix. In fact I find a 50/50 mix of method and hemp and hali about right.


Can't agree about the loose feed in fast pushing water though. Just cause the chasing around action and spreading around of fish we are trying to avoid.
 
Andrew and Graham I have been thinking about mixing the method mix with a fishmeal mix and some crushed hemp to alter the consistency so it breaks down and disperses quicker.

Dave
 
try a combi rig with tungsten putty over the knot about 2" from the hook or a micro swivel with silicon tube and tungsten rig tube so your baits pinned to the deck
 
Graham Elliott said:
Can't agree about the loose feed in fast pushing water though. Just cause the chasing around action and spreading around of fish we are trying to avoid.
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Freely admit it's not an option for every situation, should have added pace of water to the distance and depth consideration! My thoughts mainly revolving around where the loose feed will end up - if you can't be sure, then don't do it! We should add substrate type to that list as smooth sand or flat bedrock river beds don't hold loose feed too well. Gravel on the other hand . . .
Not quite sure what you mean by 'chasing around' but getting the fish moving around the swim for food items is something I'm actually looking for. I don't want them to hold station munching away in one spot as this is likely to cause missed bites as the fish can pick up the bait, chew it off and spit the hook out without registering so much as a 'Chub Knock'. I've watched Barbel do that on many occasions which is why I tend towards touch ledgering with a single rod these days. On pressured venues it can be the difference between a few knocks and a few Barbel in the net. That whole 'anti eject' mouths thing I bought into a few years ago has been well and truly busted in my mind.
 
Mike Hodgkiss said:
Stop messing about with all this David , just put a big lump of Garlic Spam on , that will concentrate their feeding activity :D
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Bang on mate and a cane rod tooooooooooo:D:D:D:D
Every one must think our Yorkshire rivers are stuffed with Barbel must be bloody good groundbait if you get two Derwent fish int the swim at the same time
 
No need for groundbait Ken, big lump of meat like Mike suggested and let 'em fight over it!
 
Mike Hodgkiss said:
Stop messing about with all this David , just put a big lump of Garlic Spam on , that will concentrate their feeding activity :D
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Hi Mike I do try to keep it simple most of the time, more so when the water is coloured. I do over think at times rather than just sitting it out and believing in what i am doing ;)

Dave
 
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